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What clubs, fraternities, or sororities, or sports teams did you participate in school? I was actually in a sorority in high school, Tri-High Y.

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And we just, you know, I don't remember that we really, I think we were supposed to do something community service oriented. But I, for the love of life, I can't remember what it was that we would do.

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So it was just a fun getting together with a bunch of girls, having, you know, get-togethers and sleepovers and messing around. So nothing, I'm sure we did some kind of community service, but it's escaping me now.

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I was in a sorority in college, Delta Gamma, and I enjoyed that. It was actually more than anything, it probably gave me a place to live.

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And room and board is really kind of the predominant, but a lot of good girls in that group too. I enjoyed that a lot. So where I appreciated it, I should say.

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Yeah. You?

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Well, I just did sports and band, and that was pretty much it into high school. And then in college, I developed very close friendships with David Claymore and David Frederick that were both from Blacksburg, Virginia, and their parents worked at Virginia Tech, and Claymore's dad was a football coach at CU at that point.

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And we're still buddies. We had our, what anniversary was that?

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Like our 50th dishroom. We were dishroom rats and food service guys for four and a half years and still pals.

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It's just kind of fun. But that was our fraternity.

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Yeah. Dishroom rats, sort of.

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And the pots and pans. What are those pinball machine?

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Oh yeah, pinball. I played a lot of pinball because they had pinball machines in the dorm outside of where we worked.

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Herbie's deli. Herbie's deli.

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Yep. And some foosball.

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Yep. Yeah, we were not frat boys.

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What is your favorite school memory? You can start.

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What school? Any school.

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This has been a stumper. I don't know.

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Favorite school memory. This is a rousing one, isn't it?

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No kind of memory, good, bad or indifferent. Yeah.

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I don't know. I'll pass.

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We're going to come back to that question. Dad, you spent time working as a ranch hand.

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Will you please talk more about your experiences there? When you were there, what it was like, any stories or memories you have of working at the Cap-K Ranch?

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Well, my first experience was coming from Mount Vernon, Iowa. My folks were going to move over the summer, so I came on the train from Iowa to Glenwood.

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We really met the Bowmans, the foreman and his wife. Mrs. Bowman picked me up from the train, the Denver Zephyr, which I started in Illinois or Iowa in the afternoon.

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And then I didn't get to Glenwood until the afternoon the next day. And we get off the train and I'm looking around and I was this tall, skinny kid with a suitcase.

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And Mrs. Bowman loaded me up, took me up to the ranch, showed me this little house across from their house where I was going to live for the summer. And then their nephew, grand nephew guy, Mish Pryor showed up like a week later.

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But Mr. Bowman got me a horse, got me a shovel, got me some boots, some irrigator boots, just thigh high waders. And took me out and started showing me how to do it and assigned me the principal job of moving my water around, growing the hay and killing thistles with the shovel.

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So we're back to the shovel. And then we would eat three squares a day back at the ranch with Mrs. Bowman.

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And she was a good cook and we ate a ton of elk and good breakfast. Every day it was bacon, eggs, pancakes, French toast.

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You ate and ate and ate because you worked hard all the time. And then we'd have roast elk, roast beef occasionally.

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We ate more elk than we ate beef. I think the Bowmans ate all the beef in the winter because they got a beef a year for the summer boys, what they called us.

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So we liked that. That was fun.

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And we did repairs and we irrigated and painted things and all that kind of stuff. So it was a lot of fun.

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Did you teach you to saddle the horse? Oh yeah.

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Saddle the horse, catch the horse up, saddle the horse, ride the horse, don't take any shit from your horse. His favorite saying was knock the fart out of him if they acted up.

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Did you ever get thrown from the horse? Nope.

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He was kind of like the guys we went on the pack trip with. Mr. Bowman didn't have any, what he called them, old rips.

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There were no old rips because when the owners would come out with their kids and stuff, they didn't want anybody getting hurt. So when I worked there, nobody ever got hurt with the horse.

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So yeah, I just learned how to ride. I didn't learn how to rope, but I learned how to ride, saddle, you know, no sweat with all of that.

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That served me well in vet school. So yeah, then on our trip.

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So I really enjoyed it. Mr. Bowman was a hard living man.

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Besides knock the fart out of him, it was hit it like you live. Hard.

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I was just quote, and he was a hard-bitten man, but he was honest and fair. So I loved it.

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And they had good fishing right out the back of my house. Mom and dad, both of you went to summer camps as children.

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Can you please talk about your summer camp experiences where they were, how long you went for what you did and any special memories. Thank you.

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You think I should remember some of this, but I can't remember the name of the camp. It was the Girl Scout camp in the mountains and lived in a cabin.

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It was a little bit scary. I didn't have any friends go with me.

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So I didn't know anybody and other kids knew people, but I loved the hiking around. I have a picture of me.

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Maybe you guys have seen it standing on a log across a river. You know, I remember not being warm at night.

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It was a little chilly go figure that I wouldn't be warm at night. It was fun.

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It was different. It was an adventure.

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We had a lake. We swam in it.

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We canoed. We horseback ride.

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We did lanyards. We did all the usual stuff you do at camp.

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My favorite was at nighttime sitting around the campfire and singing. I loved doing that.

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You know, it would get dark up there. There were no lights.

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So it got really dark in the cabins. If you had to go to the bathroom at night or do any of that, that was a little scary.

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There were wild animals up there. There had been some situations at other cabins in our group that happened.

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You know, you had to just be aware. But overall, it was a really fun experience.

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I was glad I got that opportunity to go. I wish I could remember what the name of my camp was, but I don't think about it.

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Well, my first camp experience was I did sell enough mince two years in a row to make the tuition to go to YMCA Day Camp up in Netherland. And we would get on a bus at the Boulder Y, which my dad was a big fundraiser for.

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And we'd take the bus to Netherland. And then we'd take our lunches and we'd get to ride horses sometimes at the stable down in Netherland where the peak to peak highway goes south and north.

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And then we'd go up to the camp and go for hikes and mess around, learn how to use your pocket knife and go on hikes and catch frogs and do the usual kind of boy stuff. It was all boys when I went.

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I think they did have girls too, but not when we were there. And then in Houghton, those Boy Scouts and we would go a lot of times in the summer, we'd go to these local, like once a month, the Upper Peninsula Boy Scout crews would they would have somebody would host a big camperee, which was usually like a Friday, Saturday, get their Friday set up, do compass courses, lashing, do stuff, build fires, things like that.

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And we had a good time doing that. And then we did the Greenstone Trail from one end to Isle Royale to the other as a group with my brother and about five other kids.

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That was a blast. And later on, it was probably seventh or eighth grade between eighth and ninth, probably I went to Camp Manitwish, which was a canoeing camp in Wisconsin that my cousin Craig had been to and my cousin Bitsy had gone to.

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So I did that one year and Tim's did it another year. And that was fun.

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It was like two weeks. Learned how to canoe somewhat, played, you know, games and sports and stuff.

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It wasn't wasn't quite as good as I was hoping because we didn't get to go on as many. I thought we'd be doing canoe trips all the time, but we only did really one.

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Our counselor was a kid from Carleton College. And he wasn't the greatest.

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You know, he didn't really want to get into the canoeing aspect. And I had boys from inner city Chicago, white guys.

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And there's a couple of black guys from inner city Chicago. And played some basketball.

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That was about it. Got to see my first daughter though, canoeing along and he pops his head up right next to me.

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That was cool. I remember I got to see my first porcupine.

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A girls' camp camp? Yes. I loved it. A porcupine.

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I know. I know. When was the second one you saw?

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With my parents at a Shriner, no, a PEO activity picnic. So the third one was you and me at Jenny Lake.

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That was a fun one. Yep.

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I think that's one of two I may have seen. Was that one and one other one?

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Well, then that was pulling the quills out of kisses. No, twice in one day.

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Yep. Okay.